The Cranky Gamer ([info]rpg_crank) wrote,

Dragon Disciples

I started to compose this as an e-mail to Cayzle, then I just got annoyed enough to post it. My wife is 300 miles away picking up the once and future roommate, so I can geek out tonight.

At first, I was feeling smug about Dragon Disciples, who now seem to be an unholy prestige class. I came across the following in "Races of Faerun", about acquiring a template. A direct quote from page 5 (the sidebar)

"If the template carries a level adjustment, the charact's effective character level instantly increases to the new total of her character level and level adjustment. Until the character earns enough experience points to 'catch up' to her increased ECL, she can't add any more class levels."

In other words, while its probably not everything you're wanting to hear, at least reaching 10th level of Dragon Disciple (when they get the Half Dragon template) means that they instantly gain a +3 ECL, and now is going to take a lot longer to go up a level for a while.

But then I looked at this a bit closer. First of all, any 5th level Bard can become a Dragon Disciple with a minimum of effort; it requires a bard with no intelligence penalty to start planning for it when he gets 4th level, so he can spend the total of 9 skill points he'll need... yeah. 9 skill points for a bard. 1 point for Speak Draconic, 8 ranks of Knowledge (Arcana) (which many bards will have a little of, anyway). It costs 10 if you're a sorcerer, since speak language isn't a class skill (and that assumes you aren't able to speak it as a bonus language for high intelligence, and are just picking this up on a whim). At 1st level, you get a +1 to natural armor as you're covered with tiny, iridescent (read: shiny) scales.

At 2nd level, you gain 8 levels worth of abilty increases in strength, plus a claw and bite attack. 3rd level allows you to breath fire, acid, cold, or lightning. 4th level gives you 8 more levels worth of strength, and shinier scales. At 5th level, you have Blindsense within 30 feet; the rogue will still get a sneak attack, but you will know its coming, and where to return fire (literally, in some cases, and the minimum range is 30 feet). 6th level sees 8 levels of Con boost. 7th level sees a stronger breath weapon and even shinier scales, followed by 8 levels worth of Intelligence boost. At 9th level, you get wings, which is kind of funny, since most PCs are medium or small size, and no medium or small size half-dragon has wings. At 10th level, your blindsense gets better, and you get all the benefits of the half-dragon template... 24 more levels of ability increases, even shinier scales, darkvision, low light vision, immunity to sleep and paralysis, immunity to the type of energy used by your breath weapon, doubling your old flight speed. The entire time, you're gaining 7 more spells per day from any level you like, of those you can cast (interestingly, they do not specify that it must be applied only to spontaneous-casting-only classes).

So. 56 levels worth of stat increases, or about 6 per level of the prestige class. On average, you're getting either a D8 of breath weapon or a +1 to natural armor every level. You can fly, fight unarmed, cast spells, and still have armor equivalent a chain shirt which cannot be removed, and is still present if you're surprised, held, or dead. And a d12 Hit Die.

With requirements that most bards and sorcerers have to have a good reason NOT to fulfill at some point in their career.

The thing of it is, I had a character for whom this prestige class would've been perfect. In 2nd edition, he was a dual-class druid-bard (bard was the active class). Working for the druid circle, he wound up in a run-in with a very powerful dragon who wizard-marked him, and could still observe through the mark which spread down Cormac's face, neck, and across his back. He had contact with a dragon beyond "I sorta want to be one"; he had a connection that ran deep, and could've been interesting to play out with something like this.

The dragon disciple? It's just obscene.
Tags: d&d 3.5, prestige class

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  • 6 comments

[info]cayzle

June 1 2005, 00:15:48 UTC 6 years ago

LOL!

Vindicated!

hee hee!

(More if only I were not late for my own blog and busy busy busy at work!)

[info]dracolight

June 2 2005, 02:52:58 UTC 6 years ago

Doesn't it have the problem that your spell levels don't increase? Yes, you do get bonus spells, but not actual further levels. Also note that this is as from a high ability score, which only gives you bonus slots, not spells known.

Essentially, it says you're not a spellcaster anymore; you're dedicating to become a fighter. A cool option if you were going to be a fighter/caster combo; not so much for any other straight caster. No high level spells and no new spells really hurt, especially for spontaneous casters (who only learn new spells with levels).

It's really cool for a Hexblade (class found in Complete Warrior; think Fighter/Sorcerer combo, much like Ranger is Fighter/Druid and Paladin is Fighter/Cleric), though. No reason for them to not take it. Bard and Sorcerer? Could hurt.

[info]rpg_crank

June 2 2005, 03:29:13 UTC 6 years ago

Yes and No...

While yes, you take a hit in caster level (and do not learn new spells, which can damage a sorcerer or bard), your gains are still quite impressive. Additionally, if you're a sorcerer, you're still a sorcerer, meaning you can use spell-trigger and spell completition items like wands and scrolls to help cover some of your weakness in spellcasting. If you're a bard, you can do that, too... plus, you have the Use Magic Device skill (or you should), which means you can use a sorcerer's, cleric's, and druid's wands, scrolls, and so on, as well.

It does hurt their spellcasting capability compared to a pure caster. However, the benefits are fairly extreme, even when compared to other prestige classes, and especially when compared to the entrance requirements. If this were an epic prestige class, I wouldn't say anything; a class which alters your very nature makes sense at that level. But a class which can be begun when you reach 6th level, with only minimal requirements, and NO drawbacks to turning into a monster? That stretches my credibility.

[info]dracolight

June 2 2005, 19:05:48 UTC 6 years ago

Re: Yes and No...

It does bring up an important question, though: Dragon Disciple essentially turns you into a fighter type. If you were wanting to be a fighter type, why did you invest levels into Bard or Sorcerer (two very non-fighter types)? I'll admit, yes, having the wand/scroll options does ease some of the spellcasting woes... except the fact that your caster level will always be dependant on the item. Not so hot, that. UMD isn't a good option either, as Dragon Disciple does not have that as a class skill, and thus double cost for any gain. Terrible, that.

Perhaps another thing to consider: You're spending 10 levels to get a +3 Level Adjustment (which is, by definition, worth 3 levels). Yes, you do continue to gain BAB and saves and hit dice and all that... but consider this. Would you take levels in a class that give you a d12 HD, two good saves, average BAB, and no class abilities? Of course not. Why take the Dragon Disciple, when instead you could just start off as a half-dragon, and save time? I'll admit, the wings are a very nice bonus, as is the blindsense, and the extra spell slots won't hurt. But worth that much? I don't know.

Personally, I never liked the class either. I'd usually label turning into a monster a terrible drawback, regardless of the benefits you get. I don't know about you, but I'd never feel comfortable with a half-dragon hanging around me. I just don't think it's very unbalanced, especially compared with other notable prestige classes (Archmage, Contemplative from Compete Divine, tons others).

[info]rpg_crank

June 2 2005, 19:25:06 UTC 6 years ago

Re: Yes and No...

Why take Dragon Disciple, instead of start off as a half-dragon? I imagine because a lot of DMs won't let you start play as a half-dragon, especially not in a game starting at 1st level, but they will let you start as a Bard (which is, IMO, the better option for an aspiring half-dragon; 1 level of bard, 1 of sorcerer, then 3 more of bard to give you the best advantage going into the class).

So, at 1st level, I'm a human bard. Nothing wrong with that. By 3rd level, I'm a back-up healer and buffer, with a touch of sorcerer. At 6th level, I start turning dragon. Now, the wizard is throwing a couple or three fireballs a day, the rogue can sneak attack for a lot, so it doesn't seem that bad... but the slow accumulation of bonuses, with no drawbacks, is where these guys go nuts.

[info]cayzle

June 15 2007, 21:29:59 UTC 4 years ago

Revisiting the Dragon Disciple

My latest screed is really about maxing your AC, but in it I turn again to the Dragon Disciple, with a more charitable eye.

http://www.cayzle.com/screeds/book053.html
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